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	<title>Comments on: Sacrifice In Stories</title>
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	<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/</link>
	<description>Infinite Possibilities</description>
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		<title>By: Miladysa</title>
		<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9370</link>
		<dc:creator>Miladysa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/#comment-9370</guid>
		<description>Even later...

I agree that the sacrifices have to be meaningful or at least leave you with a feeling of hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even later&#8230;</p>
<p>I agree that the sacrifices have to be meaningful or at least leave you with a feeling of hope.</p>
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		<title>By: Corvus</title>
		<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9350</link>
		<dc:creator>Corvus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/#comment-9350</guid>
		<description>Chiming in a bit late here.

The story ought to dictate its ending. Sometimes it will be happy, unhappy, resolved, or unresolved.

Sideways didn&#039;t resolve anything really, but it did show the start of a new story arc and a meaningful change in its central character.

The Proposition ended well on one level, but completely devastatingly on another.

Bliss (both the Australian movie and its source novel by Peter Carey) ended in death, which turned out to be a very happy ending.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chiming in a bit late here.</p>
<p>The story ought to dictate its ending. Sometimes it will be happy, unhappy, resolved, or unresolved.</p>
<p>Sideways didn&#8217;t resolve anything really, but it did show the start of a new story arc and a meaningful change in its central character.</p>
<p>The Proposition ended well on one level, but completely devastatingly on another.</p>
<p>Bliss (both the Australian movie and its source novel by Peter Carey) ended in death, which turned out to be a very happy ending.</p>
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		<title>By: E.v.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9313</link>
		<dc:creator>E.v.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/#comment-9313</guid>
		<description>Yeah. One Flew Over the Cuckoo&#039;s Nest is another. I think the theme there is &quot;Authority will always find a way to stamp out free will.&quot;

In the end the main character getting lobotomized is the ultimate victory on the part of authority to take away his free will.

But I think that ending is satisfying because we know the hero is fighting a losing battle from the beginning. The storytellers propose the thesis that authority is ruthless, and will not tolerate free will. They establish this premise early on, and I always felt that was just as much if not a stronger part of the story than the actual plot.

Hero getting a lobotomy just confirms everything we believe about the evils of authority figures. &quot;I told you so!&quot; - Therefore satisfying.

Now if they hadn&#039;t focused so much on nurse Ratched&#039;s battles with the hero Randle, and hadn&#039;t emphasized his constant testing of her and really drove that theme home, then Randle&#039;s lobotomy at the end would seem senseless and confusing.

It&#039;s also the nature of the setting. They&#039;re in a mental institution. Randle could escape at any time, but he chooses to be there. He doesn&#039;t so much want to be free (he could just leave) as he wants to be free in the face of authority. 

In a sense he creates his own doom. That combined with confirming the audience suspicions about authority creates an ending which justifies everything we know to be true.

The story just has to make sense, and extreme events that happen need to have happened for a reason, even if that reason is not apparent until the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah. One Flew Over the Cuckoo&#8217;s Nest is another. I think the theme there is &#8220;Authority will always find a way to stamp out free will.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the end the main character getting lobotomized is the ultimate victory on the part of authority to take away his free will.</p>
<p>But I think that ending is satisfying because we know the hero is fighting a losing battle from the beginning. The storytellers propose the thesis that authority is ruthless, and will not tolerate free will. They establish this premise early on, and I always felt that was just as much if not a stronger part of the story than the actual plot.</p>
<p>Hero getting a lobotomy just confirms everything we believe about the evils of authority figures. &#8220;I told you so!&#8221; &#8211; Therefore satisfying.</p>
<p>Now if they hadn&#8217;t focused so much on nurse Ratched&#8217;s battles with the hero Randle, and hadn&#8217;t emphasized his constant testing of her and really drove that theme home, then Randle&#8217;s lobotomy at the end would seem senseless and confusing.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also the nature of the setting. They&#8217;re in a mental institution. Randle could escape at any time, but he chooses to be there. He doesn&#8217;t so much want to be free (he could just leave) as he wants to be free in the face of authority. </p>
<p>In a sense he creates his own doom. That combined with confirming the audience suspicions about authority creates an ending which justifies everything we know to be true.</p>
<p>The story just has to make sense, and extreme events that happen need to have happened for a reason, even if that reason is not apparent until the end.</p>
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		<title>By: SMD</title>
		<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9312</link>
		<dc:creator>SMD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/#comment-9312</guid>
		<description>Well could a story be equally effective if nothing does get resolved in the end?  What if the moral of the story is that some things are worth dying for, even if the chances of succeeding are slim to none?  I&#039;m trying to think of an example of this.  I know I&#039;ve seen some, but I can&#039;t think of any at the moment.  The closest I got was Cool Hand Luke, but that&#039;s not really what I was thinking.  Though I could use that as an example.
If you&#039;ve seen that movie you know that Luke dies in the end (he&#039;s shot while running from the cops).  Luke isn&#039;t really a hero, not in a traditional sense.  He&#039;s actually a criminal serving time for a crime.  Technically I guess you can say he is heroic because he is fighting against conditions that are inhumane, but really he should be in jail because he&#039;s a criminal.  But we still feel for the character even though he dies in the end of the movie...so would that count as satisfying even though nothing truly gets resolved?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well could a story be equally effective if nothing does get resolved in the end?  What if the moral of the story is that some things are worth dying for, even if the chances of succeeding are slim to none?  I&#8217;m trying to think of an example of this.  I know I&#8217;ve seen some, but I can&#8217;t think of any at the moment.  The closest I got was Cool Hand Luke, but that&#8217;s not really what I was thinking.  Though I could use that as an example.<br />
If you&#8217;ve seen that movie you know that Luke dies in the end (he&#8217;s shot while running from the cops).  Luke isn&#8217;t really a hero, not in a traditional sense.  He&#8217;s actually a criminal serving time for a crime.  Technically I guess you can say he is heroic because he is fighting against conditions that are inhumane, but really he should be in jail because he&#8217;s a criminal.  But we still feel for the character even though he dies in the end of the movie&#8230;so would that count as satisfying even though nothing truly gets resolved?</p>
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		<title>By: E.v.R.</title>
		<link>http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-9311</link>
		<dc:creator>E.v.R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.redchurch.com/quantum/2007/11/27/sacrifice-in-stories/#comment-9311</guid>
		<description>The ending doesn&#039;t have to be happy, it just has to be *satisfying* -- see The Departed as a great example of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ending doesn&#8217;t have to be happy, it just has to be *satisfying* &#8212; see The Departed as a great example of that.</p>
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